CNN Lou Dobbs Tonight - Transcript

LOU DOBBS TONIGHT

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DOBBS: President Bush today in Nebraska pushing amnesty for illegal aliens, but Senator Ben Nelson, Democrat of Nebraska, says the president's amnesty push is a danger to this nation, and it must be defeated.

Senator Nelson is one of only four Democrats who voted against the Senate's so-called comprehensive immigration reform legislation last month, joining Senator Robert Byrd, Senator Byron Dorgan and Debbie Stabenow of Michigan to reject the illegal alien amnesty bill. Senator Nelson joins us tonight from Capitol Hill.

Senator, good to have you here.

SEN. BEN NELSON (D), NEBRASKA: It's my pleasure, Lou. Thank you.

DOBBS: The president today making much in your home state of the fact that amnesty isn't amnesty. How do you react?

NELSON: Well, I just have to, quote, let's say, Senator Grassley and former Attorney General Meese, who were back here in '86, when the amnesty bill was passed, and they said it was amnesty then, and it's amnesty now. So I think that we're -- it's more than being worried about words. You have to focus on what it is that they are trying to do. And what we are going to have is a bill that the Senate passed that you can't square with the House version in conference. There are problems that are already arising in the conference.

And if you don't do that, we're not going to secure our borders so you're going to have more illegal immigrants coming across the borders, you're going to have more meth in Nebraska, and that's a big issue. Eighty percent of our meth comes from Mexico.

DOBBS: Mexico is the principal source -- not only in Nebraska, but nationwide ...

NELSON: Nationwide.

DOBBS: ... of meth, of heroin, cocaine and marijuana. And we still do not have our borders secured four-and-a-half, almost five years now after September 11. The United States Congress, the United States Senate, the president of the United States, have not seen fit to secure our borders on purely national security grounds, leaving illegal immigration out of it. How in the world are American voters to react, whether Republican or Democrat?

NELSON: Well, I think, you know, what the American people are asking for is to shut the back door to illegal immigration so you can open the front door to legal immigration. But to do that, you've got to secure the borders first.

DOBBS: Right.

NELSON: And this do-everything bill that seems to be hanging up the conference is going to end up where we don't have any action to secure our borders.

DOBBS: Senator, let me show you something, and all of us something, and ask you to listen to this. This is what the president was saying today, in your -- in Nebraska, about employment of illegal aliens.

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GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Amnesty means you are automatically a citizen. I don't think that makes sense. It's not fair to those who have waited legally. We got a lot of people waiting to be citizens here, and they've done -- they've adhered to our laws, and they are in line.

They are in a citizenship line, and I think it would be unfair to those who have been here legally to say to those who have been here illegally that these folks get ahead of you in line. That doesn't make any sense to me, if we're a country that's going to uphold laws.

I guarantee you many employers here in the state of Nebraska, people in the agricultural sector, people in the hospitality sector, understand the need to have a rational plan that will enable them to have somebody here on a temporary basis to do the jobs Americans aren't doing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DOBBS: Senator, your reaction to the president's comments?

NELSON: Well, I think the president is trying to impress upon the American people how important immigrant labor is, but we can have that immigrant labor legally as opposed to illegally, and that's what I think we're all trying to do.

Shut the back door to illegal immigration through securing the borders and open the front door. We understand the need that we have in this great country for legal immigration, for the work that they are doing. But we need to make sure that it's legal.

DOBBS: You're a member of the Senate Agriculture Committee. We have taken a look at a number of studies, because one of the protests is that we need guest-worker programs and that we have to have low- wage competition, the lowest end of the wage scale in this country, so that people can benefit from labor that is, frankly -- let's be honest about it -- being exploited here, illegal aliens in particular.

But our review of the research shows that if you raised wages by about $7 an hour, above the $9 right now in produce in particular, that would add 10 cents to a head of lettuce in this country. Isn't that a small price to pay for the dignity of the workers, whether they are from Mexico, the United States, wherever they may be from, and consumers in this country?

NELSON: Well, we're caught in an unusual situation. Obviously, we want to be competitive in the world with our agriculture, and so they are very concerned about having the cost of -- the input costs go up and they want to keep it at the lowest possible level.

But I do think that you the could bring workers in, and at a reasonable level of compensation, still accomplish, as you're suggesting. But, that's a very difficult thing, and it's going to take some time with agriculture to be able to make this work. But, we can do it with legal immigration, not with illegal immigration.

DOBBS: And that depends, as we've discussed, on the reforming immigration based on the ability to control it, which can only be founded on control and security of our borders and ports.

NELSON: There is a way to do this, and that is to split the whole immigration legislation into two pieces.

DOBBS: Right.

NELSON: The border security first, that piece could be put in place. And then the rest of it could be held in abeyance until the border is secured.

DOBBS: But, senator now ...

NELSON: Then you can work your way through it. DOBBS: ... senator Kennedy and Senator McCain and Senator Specter and Senator Frist, the president, they would be in horror that you wouldn't be talking about comprehensive then.

NELSON: I have a great deal of respect for the president and my colleagues, I just happen to disagree, but I think you can do this.

DOBBS: Senator, I think you're right. There's so much that could be done with just a little reason and some leadership. Hopefully, somebody's listening to you. Senator Ben Nelson, thanks for being here.

NELSON: Thank you, Lou. It's great to be you.

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